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 " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .

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carolineleiden



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   2nd May 2012, 00:13

Tuffy: That is a unique ringtone that turns quite a few heads when your phone goes off in public.. It is the one and only version of a man faking a you-know-what in high F! lol

Imagine his neighbors' initial reaction while practicing that aria. Sunday afternoon, they are having the inlaws over for a nice cup of tea after church...civilized conversation, madeleines, soft classical music in the background, oh, what a lovely flowers you brought mom, and then suddenly THIS coming through the wall! Again and again! I can see a mother in law clutching her handkerchief, shocked, crying on the couch, comforted by her daughter, and a father in law angry, already in the doorway, swearing to never set foot in this house again, and why did his daughter ever marry this dimwit, and the neighbor fruitlessly trying to explain that "the guy nextdoor sings opera..".

"Oh, so they call that opera nowadays? "

This is really one great scene for a cartoon.... crazy
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Rosamunda



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   2nd May 2012, 14:13

Well, Carolina, I think Tuffy should invite your neighbors afflicted to other nice cup of tea, other muffins, etc.. afternoon at home, and put the full screen duet to clarify the truth of the facts and avoid misunderstandings.
Perhaps repeated cries, fainting and other tragic scenes, but ... surely one of the neighbors will become to early Baroque.
I am for sure. Laughing
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Artemis



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   2nd May 2012, 14:27

In the interests of perspective and lest anyone who has not yet seen it gets the wrong idea, it's worth mentioning that, in many respects, this is actually a rather conventional production of "Poppea"; it's certainly no Calixto Bieito (spelling??) épater les bourgeois-style extravaganza! As far as I know, CB has not yet managed to get his paws on "Poppea" but it can only be a matter of time before he does (deep, heart-felt sigh of resignation) ... roll eyes

A.
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Pilarddcc



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   2nd May 2012, 18:56

Great spelling Artemis! I'm terrified about this prospective!
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rikkapijemy



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   2nd May 2012, 19:43

Have you seen: the DVD is first on Mezzo for April 2012
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carolineleiden



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   2nd May 2012, 23:07

Artemis: yes, this is quite a stylish Poppea, done in good taste, very credible, not ridiculous. Even this emotional scene with Nero and Lucano making love feels completely natural and logical in the story. Heaven knows there are a few versions out there that must have been painful to sit through for the audience because of their cramping toes...The way the scene is played out was unexpected, but it makes sense. The kiss in the end is to reassure Lucano that, even though Nero is going to marry Poppea now, he still loves him just as much as before. Much better than drowning the poor boy in the bathtub!
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SJuli



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   3rd May 2012, 05:48

Why, that drowning-in-the-bathtub thing also makes sense in that staging, even if it's totally nightmarish. I wouldn't count the Glyndebourne Poppea among those productions that must have been painful to sit through for the audience.
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Artemis



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   3rd May 2012, 06:27


Sjuli,

Me neither! And, believe me, I've seen some truly toe-curling productions of "Poppea" in my time - and Alice Coote gives a remarkable performance as Nerone (vocally and acting-wise).

My reaction was really because I didn't want anyone to think that the Madrid production was in any way sensational and particularly the duet between Nerone and Lucano which was tender, lyrical, sensual and wonderful on so many different levels.

A.
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Artaserse



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   3rd May 2012, 11:55

carolineleiden

Quote :
Must have had a lot of explaining to do when he got back home...

Don´t worry , his partner sat in the first row and wasn´t on the edge of going furioso then . hugs

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Rosamunda



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   3rd May 2012, 14:04

Artemisa, SJuly, I totally agree!.
Glyndebourne production is very good, Coote and De Niesse are gorgeous, and I think that music that closes the Nero-Lucano´s duet can evoke, according to the choreographer's point of view, a love scene or murder, depending on the staging.
The image of Poppea with which closes this production is one of the most shocking of all versions I know of "Poppea".
On the other hand, I have never seen or heard De Niese more touching than in the duet "Cor nel petto non ho" in the production of Madrid, and his "Se son perduta / o in te" is so intoxicating that the viewer also feels "perduta / o". Philipe's influence is very clear and very strong and wraps the scene in a halo of beauty that is his trademark. inlove
Cara Artemisa: Calixto Bieito bores me extremely, apart from feeling that you try to mock me: He have an untold number of soldiers in reserve (from 1 st and 2 nd World War and the Spanish Civil War), ladies and gentlemen in balls (to be possible a little dirty , sweaty and muddy), a costumes vulgar and incoherent as possible, some dead animals and almost nothing else: the story does not matter, no matter the music, beauty must be for Bieito an unbearable insult. Like I said before, absolute boredom. think

Artaserse: I am delighted that Philippe had a good reception at home!
I also have prepared for him a welcome worthy of the emperor. bow
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Artemis



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   3rd May 2012, 14:32

Rosamunda,

Re: Calixto Bieito - any director who goes on record as saying that the theme of his production of "Die Fledermaus" will be prostitution is either

(a) seriously nuts ; or

(b) has a morbid desire to be shocking for the sake of being shocking; or

(c) is being "ironic" and I just don't get it; or

(d) all three of the above!

I hope he never gets his hands on any baroque operas in his desperate attempts to make opera "relevant" !

A.



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Duffy



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   3rd May 2012, 14:58

There are strange things going on everywhere: I saw a theatre play version of Poppea a few months ago, where a fat, hairy, almost naked Nero asked Poppea:"Do you like my arms? and do you like my tits (sorry....quotation!) " I'd have had an answer....and then he squeaked "Pur ti miro...." Pure torture, because I had a different, certain, lovely version in my mind... the critics wrote that THAT was the right way to lead young people towards baroque music..... affraid
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Artemis



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   3rd May 2012, 15:22


Duffy,

It sounds abysmally bad - but, come to think of it, Monteverdi/Busenello's Poppea does ask Nerone how he found her "apples" la notte andata!! Doesn't sound quite so silly when SHE asks HIM ...

A.

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Duffy



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   3rd May 2012, 16:09

Sounds very convincing in fact, when she asks him...yes, and I like the "Come dolci" this way round (especially on the current DVD with DeNiese and PhJ), but you have to imagine this Nero really had some "apples" as you called it, we already were afraid he would undress completely.....he was a white, wobbly maggott. My friend said "Everytime I go to the theatre I have to watch naked fat men, I must have done something bad....!" Have a look? (Dressed...) Only a slight impression....

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Artemis



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   3rd May 2012, 16:18


Eeeek!! Gross!! Philou has nothing to fear from such competition ...

A.
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Rosamunda



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   3rd May 2012, 16:26

Artemis wrote:
Rosamunda,

Re: Calixto Bieito - any director who goes on record as saying that the theme of his production of "Die Fledermaus" will be prostitution is either

(a) seriously nuts (too exculpatory explanation); or

(b) has a morbid desire to be shocking for the sake of being shocking; THIS!!!, or

(c) is being "ironic" and I just don't get it (the irony is an exercise too subtle for Bieito , and can even be beautiful!); or

(d) all three of the above!

Duffy:
“the critics wrote that THAT was the right way to lead young people towards baroque music....”

Gods of Olympus!:
Luckily I am not part of the tender youth to be attracting baroque music: otherwise I would feel so insulted to beat me in a duel with Bieito. duel
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Duffy



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   3rd May 2012, 16:37

Artemis,
now you know what I've gone through... with the picture(and the sound of course!) of sweet Philippe and Nuria in my mind.... If that had been my first contact with baroque music it would have been my last...spoilt money after all that could have been invested in Bordeaux , for instance drink
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Rosamunda



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   3rd May 2012, 16:50

Duffy:
David Marton is an English cousin of Bieito? think

“Öder Party-Smalltalk der antiken High Society wird in Rezitativform durch den Kakao gezogen, Zitate und Anspielungen aller Art - von Beethoven über Schlager-Titel bis zu Chansons, von Wagner bis zu Bigband-Riffs und atonal verdrehtem Durcheinander - verfremden gekonnt.“

The pure beauty!!!
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Artemis



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   3rd May 2012, 17:09


Duffy,

I sympathise! You certainly wouldn't get many of that Nerone's "apples" to the kilo and I would imagine that the consumption of a bottle of Bordeaux (or two) would have considerably enhanced the sight of him. Actually, as a teenager, I once embarrased my family by laughing loudly, hysterically and long at a performance of "Der Freischütz" - it was the sight of the heroine (an extremely large soprano) clad in unflatteringly white bridal gown and uttering the immortal line "Don't shoot, Max, for I am that little white dove" that did for me! I've never been able to take that opera seriously since.

A.
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Duffy



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   3rd May 2012, 17:21

I had a funny experience with Rigoletto, Gilda just didn't die! She sang, sank down, sat up again, sang, sank down.....we felt as if it took hours....A german comedian once put it in words: "Bitte stirb nicht ! Doch !"
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Artemis



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   3rd May 2012, 18:14


Rosamunda,

Just re-read your post about the Glyndebourne "Poppea" - yes, the closing image is a shocking one - I always think it should be captioned "BE CAREFUL OF WHAT YOU WISH FOR" ...

A.
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carolineleiden



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   4th May 2012, 11:14

OMG Duffy,

When are you going on a theatre tour with your comedy act? I nearly splattered my sip of tea all over the computer when I read your description of that play and that actor. Remember my ability to visualise everything in absurdum.

Very Happy
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carolineleiden



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   8th May 2012, 10:59

And on a more serious note, there is more to that scene than just that kiss. It took me by surprise, I thought it was a bit overdoing it, but it was a very necessary one. Every gesture, every position, every detail and facial expression as well as every second of music and voice is carefully plotted out to help the story along.

They do it different from most other versions. There Lucano and Nero often are two horny young guys drooling over the thought of Poppea's "assetts", and here too it starts out that way too. But it changes. At the bocca, bocca, the atmosphere turns around from happy to sad. That is when they remember their own relationship, that is why their faces are so close together at these words: they suddenly remember eachothers mouth. Nero and Lucano are lovers, and love simply does not disappear overnight. They are sad it has to end, because that is the consequence of Nero marrying Poppea, and if he is going to give that relationship and his new life a decent chance, he has to break with his old habits and old lovers. Remember Nero really tried to be "good" again when Poppea came into his life.

They relive their love and their passion once more, it is their last time, with Lucano taking posession, doing all the seducing, being the dominant partner, though he is the toyboy and Nero the most powerful man in the known world, with Nero reluctantly swept away with his own passion, which ends with Nero's final Ahi, leaving him exhausted and a little heartbroken. Lucano leaves him at that moment, he takes a physical step back just before Nero gives that high F, Nero does that alone. Then the atmosphere changes yet again: that is when Lucano consoles him, he gets his wits together faster than Nero. Lucano promises Nero he is going to have a great life with Poppea now, leaving Nero who can hardly believe it full of hope. And Nero leaves, so Lucano goes back to sleep, alone, a deserted lover. Nero is torn between his two loves, reminisces, and returns to Lucano one more time, to say goodbye, to thank him for their beautiful moments. It is a breakthrough switch in dominance. Before it was always Lucano holding and caressing Nero, his head always above that of Nero, but now Nero holds him to his bosom, literally being the top dog, and in the end kisses him goodbye, with both passion and tenderness, affirming his love for Lucano, even now that he is marrying Poppea and starting a new life, but he will not just dump Lucano, he will keep on protecting him, symbolized by the arm around Lucano's shoulder as he leads him away.

A very intricate plot to tell in one aria, a key point in the whole opera, and acted out perfectly by both men.


Last edited by carolineleiden on 8th May 2012, 14:42; edited 3 times in total
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Morten Sletten



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   8th May 2012, 11:18

WELL WRITTEN!!! yes good post
- it's a really beautiful acted scene...
Another jewel in Philippe's already glowing collection
of fantastic interpretations! sunny
[i]
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Rosamunda



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   8th May 2012, 16:19

Very well analyzed the scene, dear Carolina, because it is so complex and exciting as you have described.
The choreographer has had the talent to tell two stories at once: above, a love story happy and dazzling of Nero-Poppea, below, the other love story deep and melancholy of Nero-Lucano.
The exit of the two (the arm of Caesar on the shoulders of the poet) is very nice and very symbolic.
The interpretation and staging are masterful
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Vandea



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   8th May 2012, 16:24

I´ve got my DVD yesterday...and I will watch it tonight...I´m so excited!
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SJuli



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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   8th May 2012, 18:32

Thank you, Caroline, great post!
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PostSubject: Re: " L´Incoronazione di Poppea" in Madrid .   6th October 2012, 21:36

Some German critique.

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