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 France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight

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Artemis



Posts : 590
Join date : 2011-10-26

PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   19th February 2012, 19:31

Pilar, Astarto,

I'd just like to make myself perfectly clear. When I spoke of "sexual ambiguity", I was talking about the countertenor voice in general and how some people perceive it.

For me, Philippe's voice is as masculine as any basso profundo and I would never mistake it for anything but masculine! I've never understood how anyone could think that he sounds like a woman or bought into any of the "woman's voice in a man's body" nonsense that gets written about.

There are countertenors whose voices have distinct mezzo-ish overtones but Philippe is definitely not one of them.

A.
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Pilarddcc



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PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   19th February 2012, 19:34

I got it Artemis, but thanks for the technical term, I didn't know how to explain why his voice is not feminine for me! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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peacefulworld



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PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   20th February 2012, 08:15

Thank you very much for translation, subtitling and organising this. yes
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Artemis



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PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   20th February 2012, 08:19

peacefulworld,

That's very kind but the subtitles come courtesy of Mr. (?) Nightspell!

A.
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*JaRoWi1647*
Admin


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PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   20th February 2012, 09:14

Artemis

Yes, Mr. nightspell is our one and only Master and Commander for all kind of technical stuff! bow horseman thank you

________________________________
" J’essaye de contrôler mon image et je ne vois pas pourquoi je parlerais de ma vie privée ou pourquoi je devrais faire connaître publiquement mes choix politiques ou autres." ©
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Duffy



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PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   20th February 2012, 15:50

Artemis, Astarto
sorry, but do you know P's agent? I saw P several times. But there are only a few people, some fans, you meet again in different places and of course, there is his agent. And he's the only one I've ever seen taking care to push the line, or doing anything referring to P's affairs.
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Artemis



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PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   20th February 2012, 16:30

Duffy,

No, I don't know his agent. I've seen a lady sitting alongside him sometimes at signings and I have always assumed that she was his agent - maybe the set up is different in each country - i.e. there is a local agent for, say, Germany (I've never been to any of his concerts in Germany). Re: what I call "minders" (for want of a better word) - they haven't been present at every concert I've been to - just some. Maybe they are security guards employed by a particular concert hall or opera house and would have been there anyway.

Philippe's signings are a great contrast to Cencic's. Last time I saw Max, he was sitting in a draughty corner of the TCE along with most of the other cast members, with nobody in charge. I thought he was sweet and funny (apart from THE HAIR!!!). But, of course, there were far fewer people.

A.

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carolineleiden



Posts : 327
Join date : 2011-09-29
Location : Holland

PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   20th February 2012, 17:36

It was so crowded in Amsterdam I hardly saw anything but a lot of backs and heads, but when we were up the line was finished, and there were a handful of people, men and women, who were with the organisation and with the theater. But they were just waiting, not minding him, and they were yards away.

If they were security guards, they were doing a pretty sloppy job. They were selling CD's and posters and chatting with eachother at the other end of the room.

I don't think security people are necessary. This classical audience is polite and wellmannered. It is not a footballmatch.

But then again, this was Holland. The only country where people actually give the queen a kiss. So we are not exactly in over our heads for a singer, however famous he may be. (the worst we could do to him is giving him a kiss)
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idubrov



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Age : 48
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PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   20th February 2012, 17:45

Oh, thank you! thank you! thank you! for the upload and the translation! Great job!!! Che bravi ragazzi! Grazie!!!
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SKNinHawaii



Posts : 62
Join date : 2010-03-05
Location : Mililani, Hawaii

PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   21st February 2012, 08:26

Dear Artemis and nightspell: thank you so much.....for your excellent translation. Because of your work I understood where PhJ stands, what he was and is now. I was especially touched by his comment,

"I sung in that voice instinctively but I didn't know that you could make a profession of it. I didn't know about the magnificent repertory of the castrati that one could re-claim as a countertenor. it was a realization of several stages, but I made my mind up quickly." This comment tells me how realistic, intelligent and dedicated musician he
is. He never stop challenging to reach new sphere of singing.

Astarto, thank you for your intelligent comment about PhJ's voice. I too think hes voice being very masculine of all the countertenors we can listen, from old and new. His voice unmistakeably male, through and through and there is no question of "ambiguity". His impeccable technique added to his warm, clear voice without vibrato grasps our mind directly and gracefully. When some of the admirers say his voice is like angel's which annoys PhJ very much, I think they mean it is so beautiful and ethereal that they use the term "angel & angelic" I have never heard the voice of an angel so I cannot put PhJ and angel's voice to compare. As PhJ stressed in his interview, his voice is human, masculine and countertenor range with exceptional beauty.

As for the "minders", I feel very sorry for PhJ and they are annoyance to him I am
sure. I once wrote to the site which was bit crazy addressing PhJ "Goddess" on a public site. They seemed subdued since. I think it helps if you spot the excessive private expression and write to them to behave themselves that people are reading and watching their behavior. I read on YT that James Bowman and Michael Chance said that certain age group of women consist the core of countertenors' fan and they ignore those at their peril etc. Some artist become arrogant and it reflect to their art. I noticed PhJ attracts fans from variety of age group and he treats everyone the same with his warmth and sincerity. I hope we all be as loyal and faithful fans to him as he believes we are, in general and watch him grow and become the greatest countertenor of our time. We are so fortunate to come in contact with his art in our lifetime.

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Artemis



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PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   21st February 2012, 09:47

SKNinHawaii,

I heard that interview with Messrs. Bowman and Chance and honestly, they were not being arrogant. They are both far too gentlemanly. They were responding to questions by the interviewer about their audience. They belong to an older generation of countertenors who had a very different audience from Philippe. Philippe has a fanbase that extends far beyond (but also includes) baroque music lovers. To be honest, I think this is partly what some of his detractors hold against him - i.e. that he is so popular. All this criticism on You Tube about "entertaining people by making sweet sounds", "cheap falsettist", etc. etc. is really a version of the old and, frankly, elitist "If-he's-all-that-popular-he-can't-be-any-good" argument. Some people believe (wrongly) that baroque music is only for the chosen few.

For the record, I myself am an old lady. I have always loved the countertenor voice but it's only in the last 15 - 20 years or so (coincidental with the rise in popularity of baroque music) that it has become so widely accepted.

A.
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carolineleiden



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Location : Holland

PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   21st February 2012, 10:04

In Amsterdam I saw all kinds of people. This was not the regular stuck up elitist Concertgebouw crowd, that is why we cheered and clapped so much.

There were people from 8 to 88 there, men, women, all races, creeds and colours and nationalities, and they all loved him and he was nice to everybody.

He makes baroque into (ba)rock.

BTW: in the clip from yesterdays TV show Victoire de la musique he wore the exact same clothes he wore Sunday in Amsterdam. (But there he forgot to tuck his shirt in properly after the intermission...) Typical man. If it ain't dirty enough, you can wear it again and again until it is, and only THEN you throw it in the wash.

You just gotta love 'em. give heart

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SKNinHawaii



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Location : Mililani, Hawaii

PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   21st February 2012, 11:47

Dear Artemis,

Thank you for your response !! For your information, regarding PhJ's detractor, I think she pretends to be a woman but I found last night for the first time that he might be a countertenor. He knows too much about music and he is extremely jealous of PhJ'great success. He said on YT that "why Arpeggiata uses PhJ, not me" !!! all the time he is pretending to be a woman. Thank goodness there is not so many detractor like him. PhJ's YT site are too messy with all those comments and very disturbing to tell you the truth. especially "Pie Jesu" site!!

Also in regard to Bowman & Chance, what did they mean by that they ignore those certain age female audience at their peril?

PhJ is far the most successful countertenor of our time as we all know why. There is no one who come close to him in every aspect. His interview showed us his
versatile side as a musician as well as serious scholastic side. It was very appealing interview for the mass and enlightening also in regard to the difference between castrati and countertenor. Also he showed his intelligence as an artist who know what is best for him and what he is aiming for.

I am 70 and feeling like 55 still traveling to Europe from Hawaii for PhJ's concerts lagging heavy cases up and down the trains and cobble stoned streets for two months at a time !! I have known only Alfred Deller, Kowalski, Scholl before PhJ. I like them all but PhJ is one and only. He is the best and greatest of all.

Thank you again for your great work translating the interview. With your translation, my respect for PhJ multiplied !!! Warm embrace.
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Duffy



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Join date : 2011-01-31
Location : Germany

PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   21st February 2012, 16:29

Carolineleiden,
well I think, it was ironed at least. The suit is chic, not to mention the cummerbund.
I think I don't have to comment his singing. :-)
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Artemis



Posts : 590
Join date : 2011-10-26

PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   21st February 2012, 17:49


SKNinHawaii,

Re: Messrs. Bowman and Chance - I'm not so sure they actually said that - at least not in so many words - but I guess they meant that you have to appreciate your main audience, otherwise they will desert you!

I admire your pluck dragging heavy suitcases across Europe but Philippe is worth all the effort! I never thought of myself as an old lady either - until a local 'bus driver brought me up short by referring to me as such. Shock! Horror!

My favourite countertenors are Philippe and Max; I love them both but for entirely different reasons. When I was young(er) I used to like Michael Chance and Paul Esswood a lot - also Gérard Lesne and Henri Ledroit (but HL died young and hasn't left all that many recordings).

Take care!

A.


carolineleiden,

There is actually a baroque ensemble who call themselves "B'ROCK" - maybe they should team up with Philippe. I can see the posters now : Philippe ("Rockin' ") Jaroussky and the B'ROCK Ensemble ...

A.
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SKNinHawaii



Posts : 62
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Location : Mililani, Hawaii

PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   21st February 2012, 18:49

Dear Artemis,

It is a very prolific time now for countertenor fans and I am very pleased to witness that. When i used to listen Alfred Deller, I never dreamed of the time like today will come. As PhJ often mentions with deep appreciation that his predecessors Like Jacobs, Lesne not to mention Deller, Oberlin and many CT whose work and artistry brought the enlightenment.

I am a Buddhist and my mentor encourages always that we should live not by how long we lived(biological age) but how we feel by our mind age. He says by today's
physiological clock we should be able to minus 30 years from one's actual age. I feel like it too. It is all mental and psychological. I live with passion for every little things I do. Going to PhJ's concert is one of my great passion.

The cultural void I have here is beyond your imagination, Artemis. There is no orchestra, chamber group, ensemble of any kind. Miraculously there are three opera performances a year, however, I am operaed-out except Baroque operas!! No more Verdi, Wagner or Puccini !! No thanks.

I travel in search of the profound beauty which is PhJ. and I admire so many PhJ fans in Europe who also make great effort to travel to hear him. Can you imagine traveling from Italy crossing alps to Germany or Poland to Paris etc. What a dedication !! My distance are great but it is easier to go to PhJ's concerts in Europe than follow his tour in USA, that is why I don't mind to make a trip to EU. My last two trips were like dream. I must write a book someday. I miss Europe and your lifestyle. However, no matter where you live you have to make an effort to reach and grab what you want, not waiting the PhJ will come to your town for concert.
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Pilarddcc



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PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   21st February 2012, 18:52

Dear SkinHawaii,

thanks for sharing your experiences, they are very inspiring for me!
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Astarto



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Location : France

PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   21st February 2012, 19:19

Artemis,
I thought you meant just that some people perceive it that way. Exactly, some countertenors have a timbre very similar to a female mezzo, but PhJ sounds different. I still find it unbelievable how all the different ranges of his head voice blend with each other in timbre, and the whole sounds very beautiful, but so different from how a woman in that range would sound.

Carolineleiden,
as a typical man and with the little time PhJ has, probably he just buys half a dozen of each shirt or suit he likes - whereas we women would prefer to wear something different now and then. wink


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SKNinHawaii



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PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   21st February 2012, 19:37

Dear Pilarddcc,

hank you for your kind comment. It is my pleasure and passion to go to PhJ's concerts because I find the profound beauty in PhJ's voice, singing and his presentation.

I am so happy that PhJ goes to your country. Can you imagine Italian fans has to cross Brenner Pass to Germany, fly to France or Berlin to enjoy PhJ !!! Spain holds a long affinity and appreciation for baroque music. Italy on the other hand, despite of their glorious Baroque music history they shut their ears and ignore the rise of Baroque music and the prolific array of great countertenor today. My personal opinion is that they just cannot face the dark history of castoratos. It will take more time but many Italian musicians, ensembles and directors worked and working with PhJ that someday soon PhJ will be accepted in Italy. I don't know how PhJ feels about it. He needs good timing and dedicated promoter for Italy and exposure he has been receiving in France and Germany and enlighten Italian music fans.
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Pilarddcc



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PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   21st February 2012, 19:51

Dear SKNin Hawaii,

I feel lucky because he seems to like my country and he comes frequently, so we, spaniards, can treat ourselves with his beauty voice!

Regarding Italy I am quite interested about that. Last time in Madrid concert, I was talking to one of Philippe's manager in Spain and he told me that Italy is a big mess for this kind of business because there is no money to pay for foreign artists so they only hire their countrymen. However I must say that it's kind of weird because they actually love their own music, in fact sometimes too much...
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SKNinHawaii



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PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   21st February 2012, 20:17

Dear Pilarddcc,

Thank you for your reply. I think it is true that it is a mess in Italy. Luck of money,
too complicated business practice and so on. it is a pity. Although even if there is money to pay for artist, PhJ needs exposure before he can sing in Italy. Many
famous Italian singers sings outside of Italy. I am very interested in this and I will check further and let you know.
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Pilarddcc



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PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   21st February 2012, 20:27

Yes, please! I'm also very interested in that topic.

Does anyone in the forum know about the lack of PJ's performances in Italy?
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Artemis



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PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   1st May 2012, 16:25


Just browsed through this thread again (nothing better to do, public holiday!). Like other posters, I'm mystified about Philou's non-appearances in Italy but I think there must be something really idiosyncratic about the Italian "market" - some really first-rate ITALIAN artists, such as Patricia Ciofi, Anna Bonitatibus and Luca Pisaroni (to name just a few) are better known and perform more often outside Italy. Anyone any idea why?

A.
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idubrov



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PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   1st May 2012, 17:02

No offence, but Italians seem to be too much into 'opera lirica' and despise baroque music...
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tuffy942



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PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   1st May 2012, 17:32

Just read this interesting thread good post and it is true that in Italy and other places, including Latin America, you mention opera and people immediately think of the "traditional" ones which they attend time after time. Baroque music is very misunderstood and I believe in Italy the same is true. They pile it all on "early music" as if it was inferior in any way. Same with the "real singers" being over the rest of the voices. Opera magazine in the US almost never mentions baroque or countertenors except very rarely. Totally ignore Philippe and his CD's and DVD. I guess we have to continue supporting him and so many of his recordings and concerts as much as we can. I see him in Europe at least once a year (not enough!!!) and I am waiting for more concerts in the US.
It may be Italy is prejudiced or just short of funds....I HOPE soon they can also accept that he is the best countertenor in the world right now - sorry biased - or one of the best. SKInHawaii raised an interesting idea, about italian acceptance of their dark history of castrati.After all, beautiful music should reach everywhere!! music
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Pilarddcc



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PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   1st May 2012, 18:50


Evviva il coltello! This is still quite alive in Italy, I don't think the lack of Baroque music in Italy has anything to do with being ashamed because of castrati. I actually believe it's more related to economic crisis and especially their "special idiosyncracy". You know, French invented "chauvinism" but Italians actually love it!! wink
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carolineleiden



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PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   2nd May 2012, 08:27

The castrati are linked to the church in peoples minds, more in Italy then anywhere else, and the relationship between secular Italy and the Vatican has been a somewhat troubled one for centuries, to put it mildly. So they choose to ignore the castrati repertoire and in fact the entire baroque.

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Pilarddcc



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PostSubject: Re: France 3 "Ce soir ou jamais" tonight   2nd May 2012, 18:54

Dear Caroline, with all my respect I think this is a very reductionist approach to a topic which easily explained by more trivial causes. However, I believe they prefer Verdi and all the "classical" ones most than the baroque repertoire. Baroque music is not so easy to approach and you're talking with someone who only listen baroque music and I have no musical background!
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